An Interview 65 Million Years in the Making - We chat to Whit Hertford...

The museum was just as crowded as it always was, everybody loved this place; the artefacts, the animals, the Egyptian mummies... all fabulous! But I really came here for one reason and one reason only... The dinosaurs! Big or small, scales or feathers, they fascinated and excited me and the Natural history museum in London was the place to see them, they had loads! My god, they even had ones that moved! 

I grabbed a place in the queue, the guard nodded at me with a familiar grace, mind you he should recognise me, after all I was here nearly everyday, always waiting patiently to walk round the exhibit, trying desperately to find a nugget of information that I hadn't read before, or already knew... 

So Herbivores first, I thought, then a quick cuppa and onto the carnivores - my favourites... The T-Rex's, the Allosaurus', the Velociraptors... oh yes, Velociraptors were the ultimate dinosaur;  their teeth, their scales, their claws... oh those claws! And you know, I always think of that line in Jurassic park when that kid with the big dark eyes says that it looks like a six foot Turkey... 

"A turkey, huh? OK, try to imagine yourself in the Cretaceous Period. You get your first look at this "six foot turkey" as you enter a clearing. He moves like a bird, lightly, bobbing his head. And you keep still because you think that maybe his visual acuity is based on movement like T-Rex - he'll lose you if you don't move. But no, not Velociraptor. You stare at him, and he just stares right back. And that's when the attack comes. Not from the front, but from the side."

Ha!

But then, as I was thinking this I noticed something in my peripheral vision - or rather someone - Those big dark eyes, older now, but unmistakeable... Was it? Yes, it was... It was Whit Hertford...  Whit Hertford, actor, writer and director (born 1978) began acting at a crazily young age and as a kid appeared in films as diverse as The Addams family, Beaches and of course Jurassic park. But what was he doing in London? 'Actually who cares?' I thought, I just knew I had to meet him... I scanned the room, he seemed to be alone, just standing there, reading from a guide book... I had to talk to him, for goodness sake, I just had to! Jurassic park was my Citizen Kane and I couldn't miss this opportunity,I just couldn't... I smiled at him and - not realising that I was still holding the fake Velociraptor claw that I had purchased in the gift shop - tentatively held my hand out toward him... Lordy, I must have looked like a maniac, standing there brandishing a dinosaur claw, but thankfully he was very polite and although looking terrified - I must have given him flashbacks - he didn't actually run.

After explaining that I was indeed sane and that he was in no danger, he agreed to talk to me, even suggesting a cup of tea in the museum cafe... Nice... 

Sitting at a table by the window and I ordered 2 teas and a chelsea bun for each of us... He was in London now, he needed to dine like a Brit!

So, after a large bite and an uncomfortable moment when I realised I had spat a bit of bun at him, I began my questions.

You were only tiny when you got your first role, what made you... Or your parents... Think you could be an actor? 

"My parents were both trained theatre actors. My dad was also a very accomplished director & teacher and had a PhD in theatre arts. I grew up around it. So, it's 100% in my blood, bone structure and DNA. We moved from Utah where I was to the Los Angeles suburbs when I was three years old. Apparently by that time had already displayed a penchant for being a massive ham. So my parents then went about the steps of finding me an agent and wisely spearheading a productive career trajectory. They routinely checked in and asked if I wanted to audition for something or if I really wanted to do this wild thing, never forced me into it or to continue. But truthfully, I think once I booked my first commercial, the bug hit me hard. Hasn't ever left. It's what makes me me."

Both your sisters are actors too, is there any sibling rivalry? 

"My sisters followed suit and started even younger than me. My parents honestly were brilliant at handling three young fledgling actors. Could have been crazy stage parents or selfishly driving us into it, but they never did. After my father passed away there was a large portion of my life during when I was about 10-14 when my mother worked solely as the manager of myself and my two sisters, always rooting for each other. By day we would go to school and were normal kids, then we'd be off to auditions at night."

And how did it all start? 

"The hero of that chapter is unequivocally my mom. My mom is a legend of a woman. 

Everyone that's ever met her, their lives are immediately changed by her presence and friendship. She is the pinnacle of grace, has a devilish sense of humour, and a tireless work ethic She has boundless optimism and is my greatest example. Its a credit to her that she not only wrangled the work load to accomplish being the manager of three, but also was determined to provide us with normal childhoods. We all went to public school, had hobbies, friends and she made sure we lived outside of the city - so that we had a refuge from the industry....

...Remembering all this now I obviously admit that I had a very non-traditional upbringing but it was nothing short of great, kooky and wonderfully memorable. Was I bullied because of the opportunities I had to work in film and TV as a kid? Yes. Was I probably growing up with a different perspective then my friends? Yes. But I wouldn't have changed places with them. Again, it's framed my life at an early age and gave me great experiences and tools that have stayed with me for over thirty years. I loved my childhood. Which is bizarre to say, because losing my father was traumatic and definitely was a massive trial for my mother, sisters and I... but there were far more good memories than bad. And for that I'm hugely grateful. My relationships with my sisters and my mom are very precious and important to me. I was the only male in my family for many many years. I accredit that dynamic as how I early learned to develop more sensitivity and compassion, because as we know women have a greater capacity to be than men. This was an incredibly valuable environment for me to be around." 

"When trying to navigate what sort of career you want, both as a child and as an adult, you just want to work. So sometimes you have to go through lean salad days where you take whatever you can get."

What about as a grown up?

"I'm at a point now (and have been for the last 8 years or so) that I'm far pickier than I ever was in regards as to what I choose to do as an actor. I'm not a leading man, so there are pluses and minuses to that. But by and large I think it's better to be unique and maybe not as traditional when it comes to getting work."

I had waited long enough, it wasn't that I wasn't interested in his earlier, but I had to talk about Jurassic Park...

"The audition for Jurassic Park was nothing more than my reactions being videotaped as the casting director read a dinosaur story. No lines. Bizarre. So, in that case, my look and ability to act as though I was genuinely scared was all I had. And it panned out. The tape went to Steven and that was that." 

"I filmed that bit in two days, in the sweltering Mojave desert in California. Steven is a natural born leader and effortlessly inspires you on set - he's is your greatest ally and friend during filming. In addition to being directed by him I briefly had time with Sam and Laura, who were incredibly gracious and very down to earth. In the shuttle vans, I recall introducing Laura [Dern] to my then new favourite band Pearl Jam and we bonded over this Seattle grunge scene (this was 1992) that was exploding. I've played drums since.

I was eight and music plays a big part of my soul and who I am. Over the years I've played with wonderful musicians and been able to make music I'm very proud of."

But what happened after? 

"After Jurassic I made a conscious decision to audition less and consequently not work as an actor as much. I wanted to take a break and be a high school kid: play basketball, kiss girls, etc."

Ha, I thought, I remember that... Mind you I had no choice...
  So, I wondered what drew him back?

"I then remember seeing the film "Fargo" in the theatre when I was 18 and it changed me forever. I started to realize that not only did my parents have theatre training, but that all the actors I admired did as well. It was the common link. So I knew I should

follow suit. I was accepted into a respected BFA program and studied at this four year conservatory. This era irrevocably changed me as I had the chance to study and perform in numerous classical and contemporary plays. Without that shift and the decision to move out of LA, I might have given up acting altogether. LA can saturate your passion. It can make you concerned with the wrong things. It is a place that is mostly driven by commercialism. Putting myself in the theatre gave me roots. It gave me a desire, hunger and respect for the work - as well as an education that has became the infrastructure for my theories and philosophies of the medium. What it did was it renewed me and made me love acting again. My time in university also gave me my first cracks at writing and directing, which have now become what I spend 99% of my time engrossed in. 

During my mid 20s I went through another LA chapter and did a whole slew of different things: from becoming apart of the Upright Citizens Bridgade theatre, to forming my own independent film production company. LA is a town where you need to be a self-generator, and in charge of your own path. The suits don't have the ingenuity, so you have to. So that's why I created Sneak Attack (www.sneakattackfilms.com) alongside my good friend and fellow director, Ryan Darst. It became our laboratory where no matter what was going on in the industry we could push pause and work on producing our own stories. This endeavour became the most creatively fertile time of my life. My marriage of 8 years sadly had run its course and so I poured myself into the work of writing and producing these films. I'm quite proud of Sneak Attack. The work Ryan and I did during its inception, is us displaying our hearts on our sleeves. Our working relationship and friendship in general is a rarity. We can equally inspire each other in huge ways whilst also being the lone person that's able to call the other one on their bullshit. We filmed several shorts that had festival runs in the US and UK. And our first feature length, "Dreamworld", debuted in the Top 20 during its first week on iTunes.

That said, in 2013 I became somewhat disenchanted with LA. I was writing screenplay after screenplay and taking meetings for pilot scripts I had written. Which is he status quo, but incredibly gruelling and unless you strike gold, it's wholly demoralizing to repeatedly encounter that level of rejection. Its somewhat like daily marching to your own fineral. As an actor, I became pickier and pickier with what interested me and so auditions were fewer and fewer (outside of landing recurring roles on the series "Glee" and "Raising Hope" as well as voicing Cadet Korkie on the animated series "Star Wars: Clone Wars"). It was also during that year, that I narrowing escaped a very dangerous relationship that took a sizeable toll on me psychologically and emotionally. I knew I needed to reroute some parts of my life and I needed a new challenge. So I packed up my car and drove to Utah for a massive personal detox and sojourn. I wanted to spend some time in the mountains, in nature and with family.  I also had begun writing the next Sneak Attack script that was set in Utah and wanted to immerse myself by spending time in the location as I wrote it. The script became a project called "Wildlife". It's about the darker side of small town America and where religion meets rebellion. It's a love song to Utah. But it's not the image we get from musicals like "The Book of Mormon" or other stereotypical depictions of Mormons and that state. We used Kickstarter and shot the film that next summer.

My good friend Jon Heder ("Napoleon Dymamte") co-stars in the piece which Ryan and I hope to get the change to develop into a feature in a year or two. It's also my hope to adapt and produce it for the stage as well."

John Heder, cool... 

"While I was in Utah, I stumbled upon two giant gifts: one was in the form of purpose. I decided that I wanted to focus on directing theatre, that I had this deep desire to gravitate towards teaching theatre and paying it forward to younger actors. But I needed to get my masters degree. I ended up getting accepted to a wonderful course at The University of Essex's East 15 Acting School. At the same time as that acceptance letter came I had newly found the woman of my dreams and we shortly thereafter got married and moved to London in September of 2014. She's a marvel is actress and my best friend. Feel incredibly lucky to have found her and that she agreed to be whisked away on such an adventure."

And now...? What are you doing here in London? 

"I'm currently in my first year of studies and am writing / directing plays and working with

brilliant artists. My theatre company, Riot Act, is my new labour of love and I am currently in rehearsals for the debut performance of a play I just finished writing, entitled "Bloke". It's a dark absurdist comedy about a common rubbish collector who finds that one of the bins on his route is a real working wishing well."

And how are you liking it? 

"I love London. I feel a new lease on life and that this is my most exciting chapter. To be able to watch the best theatre in the world on almost a nightly basis is awe-inspiring. My name is Whitby Flint Hertford and as I said in my grad school interview that if I didn't live a certain portion of my life in the UK, that I'd be slapping fate in the face. This is where I'm supposed to be, doing what I've unknowingly been prepping to do for over three decades. But it doesn't feel like a culminating point but as a proper beginning to my life. I'm out of my mind excited for the future and to be able to live a purposeful life and am truly humbled by all the wonderful experiences that have collectively brought me to this point."

Tea and bun polished off, I checked my watch... Oh crap, I thought, my lunch break had been over for 20 minutes already... I gathered my things and thanked Whit profusely and stood up. As I left the cafe Whit called after me that we had forgotten to pay the bill - or cheque, as he called it - and started pulling out his wallet. "No worries" I assured him and flashed my staff card "Being head curator for this place has to have it's benefits sometimes!"

For more information on Whit check out his IMDB page, Wikipedia and his production company site.

Going Ape with Don McLeod

So, there I was, mooching about the Bronx Zoo, minding my own business, not gettin' under any ones feet, doin' my own thing, not botherin' no one, well I say not botherin'...  I do like to taunt the animals, you know?  In their cages like, wrong I know, but I had nuttin' better to do all day and what the hey... Huh?!

Born and bred Newyorker I am and I love this this city, I love the people, I love the food and I love this god damn zoo... I had retired early, I say retired... I was kinda' removed from my old place of employment, shall we say, force-ably?... And that's why I'm here every day...  But that's not my story here, that's for another day... No, this is my story today... 

So there I was screaming at the lions, laughing raucously at those giraffes and their freakin' necks - Boy, it must take an age for the food to get to their bellies - I'd shout at the sloths for being lazy and mimic the penguins and their stupid walk... Boy they do walk stupid! - But the thing I loved doin' best, my all time favourite thing was to watch those Gorillas... Those dumb bums, sitting there scratching'and pickin' at each other... And boy they hate it when I watch them, especially when I sit there, chomping on a ripe, tasty, yella banana... Oh yes, they hate that! They scream and they yell and they bang on that bullet proof glass, but they ain't gonna' get me, no sir... I am safe as freakin' houses, sittin' there on my bench...  I say my bench because when I sit on it, for some reason no one wants to sit near me... "Do I offend you?" I shout as they pass... But I get no answer, but I don't care, they can go and suck a lemon... This is my zoo and I can sit where I want to... But those Gorillas, they can't sit here, oh no, they can't get me, I am safe, I am happy... Or so I thought... Yes, that was until the day when one came and sat right down beside me... 

Ah crap, I thought... I've been doin' this most days for years...  He must have been pissed? Was this was to be my demise?  Oh lord let him be quick and merciful... 

I screwed up my eyes waiting for the pounding sting of the punch, but nuttin'.... I looked up... He was just sittin' there... doing nuttin'...  I knew these creatures were dumb, but come on... and how the hell did he get out anyway?... I stared at him, curious as to how he did it then suddenly he moved his hands to his head... Now at this point, I am big enough and ugly enough to admit that I was scared, I was petrified... 'Was this to be my end?' I thought. But no, instead of viciously mauling me as I had expected, the gorilla just removed his head? I am not jokin' around here... I kid you not... as god is my witness, mama mia! that ape took off his freakin' head and you know what was underneath? Do you? A head, a human head! Yes, that gorilla was a man... In a suit... A gorilla suit! But not just any man either...No! No wonder he was so convincing... This was Don McLeod... Apeman extraordinare, and a  man as famous for being an ape as I was for throwing up in the kids play area... Now that, my friend, that was a fun day... 

And he didn't even seem bothered when I started talking to him... Mind you he also didn't seem too bothered when I started itching my butt...

So I aksed him....


So, what do you need to bring out your inner gorilla?

“Usually the pay check is a major motivation.  But on a performance level, I remove thoughts as much as possible and just try to be in a more primal state of mind.  I should add that having studied gorillas at the San Diego Zoo was a big help in understand the rhythms of movement and the gentle stillness of these wonderful creatures.”

I heard that you stole the part of a gorilla called Otto… Because you were a better gorilla than a real gorilla?

“This was when American Tourister Luggage wanted to remake a series of TV commercials, and were no longer able to use a real gorilla.  I wouldn’t say I was better than a real gorilla ... just more able to take direction and also more willing to execute actions on cue.”

Where do you get the suits? Are they specially tailored for you?

 “There are only a few special effects shops in the world that have made a professional anatomically correct gorilla suit.  My first suit (1980) for American Tourister was made by Oscar winner Rick Baker.  The Godfather of gorilla suits I should add.  And yes, the are “tailor-made” for me.  A body and head cast are taken and then a spandex muscle suit is built.  A fibreglass head piece is made from my head cast and then small motors (called servos) are attached to the inner shell.  These control the gorilla brows, nose and mouth.  Arms (both short & long) are made and feet.  The fur used is very costly and is mostly synthetic fibres with bits of Yak hair added for texture.  Add black contacts ... and bingo!  You have a gorilla suit.  The professional suits cost anywhere from $20,00 to $50,000 ... and even up to $100,000 plus for one of Rick Baker’s movie suits.”

What’s it like inside?

 “Very hot!  You sweat like crazy in the suit, as hardly any air gets in.  You are encased in a cloak of spandex, thick foam padding and the outer fur suit, along with a rubber arms, feet and a head full of sculpted teeth, tongue and foam latex topped with hand-punched hairs and no cherry on top!  There is a wonderful sense of loosing the human self ... and really becoming something else, as you have no normal reference points like seeing your own human limbs, or clothing.”

 Have you ever fainted?

 “It can get up to 120 degrees on a hot day with a lot of running.  I’ve been hospitalised on several occasions due to heat exhaustion.  I nearly died working on a film (Tanya’s Island) in Puerto Rico.  I had lost most of my body fluids due to lack of sleep, extreme humidity, too many drinks in the bar the night before, and being left in the suit for 4 hours without a break.  I awoke in a hospital with tubes coming out of me and my heart rate was racing to the danger point.”

Do you have any special cooling methods?

 “I have used several.  I cool suit, which is basically Ice-packs inserted into a vest worn under the muscle suit or on a few jobs I’ve been hooked up to motorised ice box which forces cold air into a tube-lined vest.  But I rarely use them as it takes so much time to fiddle with the hookups and sometimes it gets too cold and the dramatic change in temperate can lead to serious health issues ... like pneumonia. 

The actor Kevin Peter Hall who starred as Harry in the TV series Harry and the Hendersons died as a result of complications from being in a creature suit for weeks on end with intense shifts in body temperature.”

How many costumes have you had? 

 “I’m on my 5th costume right now ... with frequent upgrades to head, arms, feet as needed.”

And where do you get the suits? Are they specially tailored for you?

 “I have friends who a major Hollywood special effects experts.  They have built the suits for me ... sometimes for a movie role and then I can have the suit once the job is finished.  My friend David Miller (creator of the original Feddie Kruger makeup) made the first version of the suit I now use, and Robert Devine has done all the upgrades and repairs on the current suit.”

Crap, really?! That's bad man.... 

So, what special mechanisms do you have? 

 “Brows, nose and lips are controlled by Remote Controls (the kind used to run a toy car or mini-drone type flying device  I can control the opening and closing of the mouth and the eyes are my own, so naturally I control those ... most of time.  The materials used have changed a lot over the years.  Better fur, lighter foam padding, and more subtle use of the motors used to animate the face.  But these days most gorillas you see in movies are all done through CGI (Computer Generated Imagery) and Motion Capture ... where an actor wears a unitard with sensors and a computer captures his/her movements and then they are generated by a software program that gives the gorilla life.  (Perter Jackson’s King Kong is a prime example).  I did a recent project in Seoul, Korea called Mr. Go ... a film about a baseball playing gorilla.  All done with CGI and Motion Capture.  I trained the actors in gorilla movement, butoh, mime and baseball (I was a college baseball player before I gave it up for the theatre.)”

A baseball playing Gorilla? Sounds crazy... But then again..?

I suppose they couldn't train a real Gorilla to play baseball... Hell in my experience you can't train a gorilla to do anything but sit on his fat butt all day eatin' fruit and scratchin'.... But I wondered why did he think that he worked better than the real thing?

 “Several reasons ... real gorillas are an endangered species and just aren’t available to be used in movement specific projects.  If I’m told to go sit on a rock or jump up and down or open a briefcase ... I can do it.  A real gorilla would just roll over and take a nap or likely move away.”

And when did you decide you liked being an animal better than a human? 

“I’ve always preferred the company of animals to that of most humans.  My first exposure to portraying a gorilla was in theatre school in a mime class.  I was assigned to choose an animal and bring my “animal” to class for a brief improvisation.  Once I got to understand more about gorillas I was hooked.”

Now I knew this guy from all the movies he'd been in... Yes I go to the movies, before they kick me out for being noisy and throwing popcorn that is... So how did that all start?
“There was a low-budget movie being filmed in the mountains of Big Bear in Southern California. They needed ape-like early men for the lead roles.  I tried out and got the job.  That was in the Winter of 1979.”

And you played a gorilla for three months in Japan?! Is that true or are you freakin' kidding me?

“There is a theme park in Southern Japan called Mitsui Greenland.  They had a live show that featured me as The Crazy Gorilla.  I was presented as a real gorilla, and rolled out onto the amphitheatre stage in a huge steel cage by a team of Japanese stagehands.  My scantily-clad assistant Sandra ran me thru a number of tricks:  i.e.  “what is 2 plus 3?” And I would pound the cage floor 5 times to great applause.  Then the tricks got more complicated and the crowd (still thinking I was a real ape) went wild when I could answer complicated math problems or point to body parts etc.  The show ended with me being released from the cage and doing a bit of break dancing to a popular Japanese J-pop song.  In the end I took off my head and revealed myself to be just a sweaty Caucasian actor from Hollywood.”

Then these two chicks walked past the bench, I smiled at them, a big toothy grin and politely said hello... I was an utter gentleman, but then for no reason these two looked shocked and ran off... I think it must have been Don... I'm mean a gorilla with human head? That's the thing of nightmares, I tell you... So I aksed...

So, has anybody truly freaked when they saw you? I mean really freaked?

 “Yes ... many times.  I’ve caused a riot in a Tokyo department store, when I accidentally scared a group of school girls on a tour, I’ve caused people to run into glass doors in American shopping malls, and when

working on the TV series Tarzan The Epic Adventures in South Africa I caused some of the local crew members to run screaming into the bush when I first came out of the dressing room.”

This did make me laugh! I had people scared of me, but they usually just give me the look... You know the one, like they've had a bad cannoli... But I only dreamed of screaming! When I had recovered I carried on with my questions.

And how many times have you been mistaken for a real gorilla? Has it ever landed anyone in trouble? 

 “American Tourister took me to the Miami Zoo for a promotion on time.  I was to be filmed outside the gorilla cage with the real gorillas next to me.  Everything went south when it was determined the male & female gorillas were trying to mate and was a major distraction.  I was rushed away by the zoo staff.  On another ill-fated TV news event, I was snuck into the Los Angeles Zoo and came out of the bushes next to the gorilla compound ... with me on the outside with the tourists.  Everyone panicked and ran in all directions.  The trainers thought a real gorilla had escaped and chased me in a golf cart with a tranquilliser gun.  I ran trying to tear off my ape mask and was yelling “don’t shoot ... I’m an actor in a suit” but they couldn’t hear me due to chaos.  I was detained in the zoo jail for several hours ... and abandoned by the TV news crew as they didn’t have permission to even be in the zoo with a news camera.”

You’ve been in so many crazily fantantastic comedies as a gorilla, including two of my personal favourites… 'Trading Places' and 'The man with two brains', but what was Ackroyd/ Murphy/ Martins’ (and all) initial reactions when they saw you in costume?

 “The reaction is always extreme curiosity mixed with laughter and a hesitation to get to close if though they know I’m a man in a suit.  Eddie Murphy put my ape head on and ran around the NY set ... telling everyone he was getting back to his primal roots.”

Did your they treat you differently in costume?

 “Yes ... the minute the gorilla head goes on I’m no longer Don McLeod the actor ... I’m sort of a semi-real animal that people can talk to and I talk back.  But they all end up cracking up and saying” I can’t believe I’m talking to an Ape.”  Once the suit is on ... actors/directors immediately look for my assistant if they want to ask something specific ... as though I can no longer understand them once the gorilla head goes on.”

Was it hard to keep a straight… ape face?

 “I laugh a lot inside the ape suit, but you can’t tell from looking at me, unless I’m physicalising the body movements.”

You acted alongside so many, what were they all like? Do you have any stories for us?

 “Eddie Murphy, Ackroyd, & Jamie Lee where great fun ... as they all are/were true professionals and very talented and funny to be around.  Steve Martin was very different from what I expected ... very stern and humourless when not filming.  
Robin Williams (Hook) was one of my favourite actors to work with.  He was incredibly humble and very interested in what was going on around him.  He was interested in what others were about ... not just himself.”

I knew it... I just knew it!

Now you and Beeks had a pretty romantic ending to that infamous scene in 'Trading Places', so you like to think that they did end up make sweet music together? 

 “I don’t want to think too much about

that possibility ... he was never really my type.  I was actually kind of hoping they’d put Jamie Lee Curtis in the cage with me ... but it wasn’t in the script.  But in Tanya’s Island I did indeed get the girl .... both literally and physically.”

Ha ha! But how fun was it to film that scene?

 “Yes ... famous humping scene.  Beeks (the actor) was not at all thrilled to be forever remember on film as the guy who got humped by a gorilla.  I’m being kind ... he was a pain in the ass (pun intended) during the whole scene.  

And what direction did John Landis give you? 

Landis just kept yelling “Hump him harder ... give it to him good!” 

Ha!

And the laugh! I like to think that’s how all gorillas laugh! Was that your idea?

The “laugh” was mostly done with body language/mime awareness on my part.  Gorillas can be very playful but they don’t laugh as such.  There is a great clip on YouTube of Koko the gorilla being tickled by the late Robin Williams, and she does almost appear to be laughing ... so perhaps I stand corrected.”

Now you haven't just done comedy. or played gorillas... You've also played a werewolf, a shadow and a… Greibbel… ?
“Yes ... I was one of the lead werewolves in the classic film The Howling.  In Hook I played Peter Pan’s Shadow and the Greibbel was a fantasay creature created by my good friend Rob Bottin (Total Recall, Robo Cop, The Thing, Legend).  My friend Mick Garris wrote the script, Joe Dante directed and it was part of Steven Speilbergs’s TV series called Amazing Stories.”

And what was Hayley Mills like to work with?

 “Hayley Mills was a real sweetheart ... as a young boy I had a big crush on her, so it was a joy to work with her after all those years.”

In the howling you played a werewolf! 
“I loved acting in the Howling, as I’d always liked the old werewolf movies and the Howling was (at the time) a ground-breaking special effects wonder with all those transformations by Rob Bottin and his crew.  The makeup did take a few hours each day, but once it was on it really was like wearing a second skin ... you hardly noticed it.  The chango-heads as we called them were puppets operated by cables and condom-bladders which were inflated on cue to give the effect of the actor’s face/neck expanding and transforming into a werewolf.  (All the Eddie Quest changes were done in a single shot, which was a leap ahead from the old stop, paste hair and cut back techniques we saw on actors like Oliver Reed and of course Lon Chaney & others.)”

You also doubled for Jack Nicholson is The witches of Eastwick, why didn’t he perform the character himself? He’s no stranger to prosthetics…

 “Well some of the effects (the devil transformation) were shot after principle filming had been completed.  And there was likely a Laker game on ... so no Jack.  Also a cost factor ... much cheaper to have a day of me in a Rob Bottin chest piece than to have Jack on set for something where you didn’t even need to see his face (just the chest expansion and hands swiping at the 3 witches in the miniature house.)”

I suppose you didn’t technically work with him but...

 “I never met him ... he was long gone when I was brought in by the special effects team (Rob Bottin shop and ILM)”

Do you know what he thought of your version of his character?

“It is very common that a special effect will be done on a “star” without them actually being on the set. I assume he thought I did a brilliant job (lol).”

You were also Quasimodo in Naked Gun 2 ½, that must have been a laugh?! Is Leslie Nielson as funny off camera as on?

 “Leslie Nielson was always cracking jokes, and he even carried a whoppie cushion (rubber fart bladder) around with him, which he would slip under an unsuspecting person when they were about to sit down.”

Bit of a shock about OJ though huh?!

 “OJ was a much better running back than he was an actor ... although he did a pretty good job during his murder trial.”

Ok then, so who do you consider as the best director that you’ve worked with?

 “I can’t really say there’s a best director as they are all very different.  Some are very sensitive to actors and others are more like military field generals.  But the most famous directors I’ve worked with (Spielberg, Dante, Landis) all had a wonderful sense of excitement and pure joy for the

art of film making which made it exciting to be a small part of a big group project.  Being a suit performer/ movement artist in most of my film and television roles, the directors have pretty much left me to my own devices, which is a real luxury for a performer.  “You’re the expert ... just do your thing.  But do it quick as we’re loosing our light.”  These are common paraphrased statements I’ve heard many times.”

What do yo think about other performers of your ilk? You know like Andy Serkis and the like?
“Andy is wonderful ... almost all his gorilla/ape roles have been created through Motion Capture. 

He is outstanding at primate movement and an excellent actor on all levels.  I like his work very much.  I’m more of an “old school” gorilla, the kind of suit performance that still uses the actor’s own eyes as opposed to mechanised eyes that some of the later suits have used.  I lot of the gorillas I’ve protrayed have been either comedy gorillas (Trading Places,  Man With Two Brains, etc) so the movement is more human and the timing is different than you would get from an actual primate.”

I stared in to the gorilla compound, 2 of them had been watching us for the past 10 minutes, they didn't seem disturbed by us one bit... I wondered...

Have you spent time with gorillas? Or did you just learn by watching them?

 “Many hours in the early days ... standing outside the gorilla compound at the San Diego Zoo and filming/watching the gorillas for hours on end.  I have not had the pleasure of going to Rwanda to actually be with a group of gorillas.  But I’ve worked on many projects with chimps and orang-utans, and I’ve been in long training sessions with a primatologist (for the film Born to be Wild).”

So then, how do you'se describe your job to people?

 “I just tell them I’m a professional gorilla during the day, and a Living Statue or Mime Artist after dark.  A professional shape-shifter of sorts.”

And Do you teach Gorilla... you know, just in case I fancy giving it a go...

"I have taught movement in theatre school and master classes in mime, mask, butoh and commedia all over the world.  I have also trained two younger assistant gorilla performers.  Adam Meir is a member of my Living Statue company and is now my main gorilla performer.  He was a former student of mine at the American Academy of Dramatic Art in Hollywood.  I still do the gorilla work on occasion, but for the most part Adam dons the costume for most of our jobs.”

I had heard he was a practitioner of somthin' called Butoh, So I aksed him more about that?

“Sometimes called the dance of the dark soul.  Butoh means earth dance or

stomp dance in Japanese -- Butoh is a little known Japanese art form that is somewhat like Kabuki or Noh theatre without the rules.  In butoh you let the moment, the environment and one’s inner feelings dictate the movements.  It is done with bent legs and performed very slow in an almost trance-like state.  It is all about transformation ... one can go from rock to man to woman to baby to demon to flora & fauna to wind, rain, insect for abstract image found only in the imagination.  It was very freeing for me as a movement artist.  Freeing from all the self consciousness and rules of classic mime, which I had studied with Marcel Marceau and performed for many years.  More info on Butoh can be found on my web site:  www.zenbutoh.com" 

So with all that under his belt I wondered what he liked best, man, monster or Ape?

“I really like a mix ...monsters are great fun as I get to work with talented special effects people who really create fifty percent of the character through the makeups and suits they bring to the various projects.  Mime is really the key art form for me ... it is the basis for all the creature work, for our Living Statue work, and certainly for the gorilla work.  These days I’m spending a lot of my time on writing.  My autobiographical novel, Gorilla Tales in almost completed and I’m looking forward to getting my stories out to the public.  I hope to do a book tour and signing in the gorilla costume.”

Now I was just about to suggest that he come wid me to put soap suds in the flamingo pool when we heard someone shout behind us... "Hey! Monkey!"

We both turned to see a zoo keeper running down the path towards us, shouting and waving a large net shouting about.

I took my chance - you know just in case something was to happen - and asked one last question...

So, Don do you actually like bananas?
"Yes ... even after having thousands of bananas thrust upon me during photo shoots, commercials or during public appearances."

And with that I jumped off the bench, thanked him profusely for his time and started running, with the keeper hot on my heals shouting "Bobo, you schmuck... How did you get out again?!... Get your ass back in your cage! Now"

I stopped and turned, sticking my tongue out at him, I thought for a moment about throwing more at him than just a banana at him, if you catch my drift?! But there was no time... What a predicament! To stay and talk more, or to run and hope I lose him? But however much I had enjoyed our time together my freedom was calling and if I had to spend one more day with the rest of those dumb apes I would lose my freakin' mind, so I ran and jumped and swang away! A talking monkey is a great attraction for the zoo, but I'd put money on it that they're regretting the day they saved me from that laboratory! 

But as I said, that's a story for another day....

For more info on Don go to his Website and his IMDB page